Curse

Lourens · Jan 31, 2009, 11:56 AM // 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

I don't care what the price is. What you do, sell or buy is irrelevant.

I don't need to buy or sell anything to other players.

If every other player disappeared but my girl, I would play the game the same way.

Grinding is bad, in that you are right, though.

Stay on Topic !

I want [Ray of Judgment] for 3 second target foe and foes in the area take 75 fire damage after 3 seconds all foes in the area start burning for 7 seconds

Improvavel · Jan 31, 2009, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

You don't have to... but why not do it?

Because I've a brain. So I do what is fun for me. I don't like auto-wins. So I don't.

Lourens · Jan 31, 2009, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Because I've a brain. So I do what is fun for me. I don't like auto-wins. So I don't.

This isnt going anywhere ... a well , CoP isnt autowin it requires thinking even more then a simple elementalist casting meteor shower

Improvavel · Jan 31, 2009, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lourens

This isnt going anywhere ... a well , CoP isnt autowin it requires thinking even more then a simple elementalist casting meteor shower

It isn't because PvE isn't competitive. Nerfing skills because they create imbalance between players on a non-competitive environment is dumb.

If you want to nerf RoJ because u believe it is a bug, that is fine. If you want to nerf RoJ because it makes the game easier for idiots, it is dumb because you aren't playing against them.

If you want to nerf CoP because it isn't a mesmer skill, thats ok. If you want to nerf it on the grounds that people are completing DoA, and so getting tormented weapons and otherwise wouldn't, its dumb because the existence of 1 or 100000000000 tormented weapons doesn't affect the game.

Balance in PvE is between professions - all professions should be equally useful. And that's it.

People always talking about the degradation of PvE - but look at mesmer - even without COP or AP-PvE skills nuking, its much better today due to [[Visions of regret] and [[Extend conditions].

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

You mean you need to put X skill on Y character or you can't complete it at all?

Apparently without knocks I cant finish the Deep and without a skill to move to bodies or using rebirth (dunno if that one works) you can't finish urgoz. And that is by design.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

They're not there to rank players, but for players of a higher skill level.

What does it matter to you if I am a high skilled player or not? I'm not going to play with you anyway because I don't want (and nothing against you - just speaking in general terms).

And it isn't hard to see who is good or not - you just need to do a few missions with them and you can judge by yourself.

What is designed for players of a higher level of skill and with loads of time and commitment is GvG.

PvE is to be played with low commitment. You can't exactly have that if you need to find 8 people to do DoA with specific builds and coordination close to the level of GvG.

Elite areas are just there to make it GWs similar to WoW. Good thing they now allow heroes on the elite areas.

Lourens · Jan 31, 2009, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

It isn't because PvE isn't competitive. Nerfing skills because they create imbalance between players on a non-competitive environment is dumb.

If you want to nerf RoJ because u believe it is a bug, that is fine. If you want to nerf RoJ because it makes the game easier for idiots, it is dumb because you aren't playing against them.

If you want to nerf CoP because it isn't a mesmer skill, thats ok. If you want to nerf it on the grounds that people are completing DoA, and so getting tormented weapons and otherwise wouldn't, its dumb because the existence of 1 or 100000000000 tormented weapons doesn't affect the game.

Balance in PvE is between professions - all professions should be equally useful. And that's it.

People always talking about the degradation of PvE - but look at mesmer - even without COP or AP-PvE skills nuking, its much better today due to [[Visions of regret] and [[Extend conditions].

[Arcane Echo][Energy Surge]

Doesnt require a hex woot

Improvavel · Jan 31, 2009, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lourens

[Arcane Echo][Energy Surge]

Doesnt require a hex woot

I did use [[energy surge] with my mesmer and [[Ineptitude].

And you know what? If they nerf cop, [[Shadow form] assassins with energy surgers mesmers, foc necros and rojs (if it doesn't cause scatter) can do the same.

In the balance pve thread down there, some guys just did deep almost as fast and not even used shadow form.

Lourens · Jan 31, 2009, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

I did use [[energy surge] with my mesmer and [[Ineptitude].

And you know what? If they nerf cop, [[Shadow form] assassins with energy surgers mesmers, foc necros and rojs (if it doesn't cause scatter) can do the same.

In the balance pve thread down there, some guys just did deep almost as fast and not even used shadow form.

Who needs a perma sin if an [Obsidian Flesh] Tank is better in most situations?

kostolomac · Jan 31, 2009, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onyx Blindbow

I want CoP nerfed for 3 reasons,
1, as I said above GW is becoming stagnant and has absolutely no challenge left because of these skills

GW is not becoming stagnant because of pve skills , it's becoming stagnant because there is no new content , so we all must replay the old content again and again and again... Also , challenge is very subjective , stop using this as a reason to nerf stuff so that you and a handful of people can remember "the good old days". The only way GW can be challenging like the first time you played it is if we get more content. Skill nerfs won't do anything to make the game challenging.

Improvavel · Jan 31, 2009, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lourens

Who needs a perma sin if an [Obsidian Flesh] Tank is better in most situations?

I prefer good old [[earth shaker] with a monk casting [[protective spirit], [[shield of absorption] and [[spirit bond].

If I was the creator of the game, I wouldn't have designed tanking skills, I wouldn't have introduced PvE-only skills, I wouldn't have introduced consumables.

On the other hand I would have split the changes between PvE and PvP, I would have fixed prices for every mods and upgrades (yes npc mod dude), runes and everything like that, I would have increased the rewards for replaying stuff like missions, I wouldn't have introduced environmental effects, I would have given mobs balanced builds, I would have made expansions with mobs with better builds using the new skills (not solo chapters), and so on.

Apparently, the game designers, also want the chance to learn with their mistakes and success and start again.

I hope they can bring in gws 2 what guild wars potential promised. I hope it feels like guild wars and not like WoW. I hope PvE will be PvE and not a competition between players to see who has the highest level or the rarest weapon. I hope you wont need to spend hours to find a full human party to do stuff. I hope gw 2 wont have potions.

Tyla · Jan 31, 2009, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Apparently without knocks I cant finish the Deep and without a skill to move to bodies or using rebirth (dunno if that one works) you can't finish urgoz. And that is by design.

Knockdowns allow you to deal damage to Aspects in The Deep, corpse transportation allows you to get past room three in Urgoz. One is something you'd be using quite often these days - Earthshaker, YMLaD etc, and is useful the entire time. The other is useful once and puts limitations on your skills entirely. Personally, I'd like to see this done some other way, but that's just me.

Quote:

What does it matter to you if I am a high skilled player or not? I'm not going to play with you anyway because I don't want (and nothing against you - just speaking in general terms).

It's just an area built for players of a higher skill level - like Master or Elite ranked quests. Get better so you can do them. HM is the same thing, they're not meant for regular completion from a casual player, but if you want to stretch, get better and move on. With the low level capacity and emphasis on your equipment not mattering as much as choices in skills and methods, it's only logical as opposed to say WoW where you've got a shit ton of high powered weapons and levels to tread through. Same thing with the Ubers in
DII.

Quote:

What is designed for players of a higher level of skill and with loads of time and commitment is GvG.

That's on a different level altogether. Might as well have a mid-point.

Quote:

PvE is to be played with low commitment. You can't exactly have that if you need to find 8 people to do DoA with specific builds and coordination close to the level of GvG.

Well, people don't like GvG because they don't like taunts. PvE may take less skill, but it's got a difficulty ground for those who want more out of the PvE experience in terms of difficulty. Think games like Devil May Cry, you've got different difficulties.

Quote:

Elite areas are just there to make it GWs similar to WoW. Good thing they now allow heroes on the elite areas.

And GW won't be similar to WoW like that unless they change the levels and equipment too.

Quote:

Apparently, the game designers, also want the chance to learn with their mistakes and success and start again.

That's what I hope - as far as I'm concerned Guild Wars is getting worse.

Onyx Blindbow · Jan 31, 2009, 01:52 PM // 13:52

/agreed Tyla

it is getting worse when they keep adding OP skills that dumb down the level of bar building to echo, arcane echo, OP skill to clear any area

unfortunately this is compounded by a bunch of players that can and will only play this way and cannot understand why it is bad for the game

Unreal Havoc · Jan 31, 2009, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Wow all this QQ, it's PvE guys....

Lourens · Jan 31, 2009, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Wow all this QQ, it's PvE guys....

That was what i was thinking :P

PvE is ment to be Imba

and why they invented cheating again?

legacyofkain85 · Jan 31, 2009, 02:14 PM // 14:14

/signed for both,although with some changes

i agree with [ray of judgment] it is a dotaoe spell with burning on each pulse of dmg so its quite powerful,mobs need to recognize this spell for what it is ,imo the mobs still recognize this spell for its older version.
I disagree with cry of pain a bit imo: make it remove a mesmer hex upon usage as its been sugested already in this thread,much like [shatter delusions]but with an aoe efect or make it so it needs to interupt a skill in order for the damage to take place ,turning it into a [cry of frustration] sort of skill without the aoe interupt,or add the aoe interupt and than we will have a more powerful pve only version of cry of frustration

Lourens · Jan 31, 2009, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by legacyofkain85

/signed for both,although with some changes

i agree with [ray of judgment] it is a dotaoe spell with burning on each pulse of dmg so its quite powerful,mobs need to recognize this spell for what it is ,imo the mobs still recognize this spell for its older version.
I disagree with cry of pain a bit imo: make it remove a mesmer hex upon usage as its been sugested already in this thread,much like [shatter delusions]but with an aoe efect or make it so it needs to interupt a skill in order for the damage to take place ,turning it into a [cry of frustration] sort of skill without the aoe interupt,or add the aoe interupt and than we will have a more powerful pve only version of cry of frustration

I vote to make it [Shatter Delusions]x[Energy Surge]
and for RoJ make it [Banish]x[Searing heat]x[fire storm]

draxynnic · Jan 31, 2009, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshgt2

I love how people nowadays are able to use their monks again to farm dungeons and certain areas in TEAMS using Ray of Judgment and they want to complain about it. This skill allows for many of the high end items to be farmed if you know what your doing and a great way to know how to work in a team. I don't see how these skills are overpowered really. Make RoJ scatter foes, then my team will simply bring Earthen Shakles and watch them not be able to move, are you going to complain about earth hexes then?

PvE-wise, this is one of the strong arguments towards not nerfing RoJ too heavily. Until RoJ, my Monk was probably my least played character - while I do enjoy Monking for a human team, when it comes to H/Hing, I find it difficult to direct the AI characters while keeping them alive. I'd tried Smiting, but never felt it provided enough firepower to really feel as if I was contributing to the team except as leader, target-caller, and providing some light condition and hex removal.

Now, however, when H/Hing I can have him running a Smiter's Boon smite build with the standard two-member backline, and feel that the character is contributing about as much to the team's success as when I use my Ritualist in a similar offense/defense hybrid role.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Nerf it to a level where it's balanced and doesn't create the stupidest spike in the game, then scale it with FC and give it more utility as opposed to damage, but maybe make it a bit useful for X/Me professions like most other Sunspear skills.

I think Tyla has the right idea here. Pare back the megaspike, and if this doesn't happen in such a way as to naturally encourage it, find a way to make it work better for Mesmer primaries while still being usable for others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus

btw, I never ran Ursan or Cryways.. I'm simply annoyed at the fact that players are constantly interested in nerfing everything simply because of the success rate of it all and/or how easy it is to execute. If ya'll haven't noticed, GW consists of 8 skills. Whether you 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 it, 1-8-2-7-3-6-4-5 it, 1-1-2-1-1-3-1-1 it, etc.. {snip}

I think the general idea is that it should be a case of knowing when to hit which button according to the circumstances, rather than having one sequence that always works?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lourens

and for RoJ make it [Banish]x[Searing heat]x[fire storm]

I'm curious... why did you include [fire storm] in the list? Are you suggesting making RoJ last for 10 seconds?

Lourens · Jan 31, 2009, 03:05 PM // 15:05

[Qoute]I'm curious... why did you include [fire storm] in the list? Are you suggesting making RoJ last for 10 seconds?[/Qoute]

Yes but 20 holy dmg a second so the enemies would just scatter like they do with [fire storm]

Improvavel · Jan 31, 2009, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

It's just an area built for players of a higher skill level - like Master or Elite ranked quests. Get better so you can do them. HM is the same thing, they're not meant for regular completion from a casual player, but if you want to stretch, get better and move on. With the low level capacity and emphasis on your equipment not mattering as much as choices in skills and methods, it's only logical as opposed to say WoW where you've got a shit ton of high powered weapons and levels to tread through. Same thing with the Ubers in
DII.

On the other hand, when u have the chance to do them you prefer to do them with the cheap methods.

Why? Because you don't want to be left behind in rewards in comparison to other players, because you don't want to be called a noob.

I finish the elite mission without using tanking methods, ursan methods, cryways or consumables. I find that interesting and fun.

I understand what you are saying in a way - you don't want an easy game, neither do I.

But I can make my game harder and so do you.

The difference, is that I play my game in the way I want. You play the game in the way it gives you most rewards regardless of it being fun and/or challenging.

Why do you do that? Does it matter so much to you taking 1.30 hours to do Urgoz in nm with a balanced build opposed to half an hour in HM with a non challenging build buffed by consumables, just because you get 6 times more rewards in the end?

All these threads are about restricting the rewards, that are completely cosmetical to a reduced number, so you can go show off and get the admiration of lesser mortals.

I get impressed with people that have decent builds, can choose their targets, can body block, show battle awareness.

I don't care if they are in 1k armor with crafted/collector weapons or the ubber expensive equipment and displaying GWAMM title.

Most people that ask for these nerfs want those things to mean skill, that's why they want to restrict the elite areas.

On the other hand, this game can be played as solo and should be balanced for it.

jaximus · Jan 31, 2009, 07:11 PM // 19:11

im glad some people agree with me about how skills like these make it so players lose the ability to play the right way and are potentially killing gw2 before it starts.

another issue id like to bring up was the purpose of the game. how it was originally designed. pve was the training ground for pvp. pvp was the new content. areas like the desert honed skills like relic running, cap points, and morale boosts. proph did it well. factions incorporated pvp into the pve storyline with competitive missions and AB. the whole skill split between pve/pvp ruined this, people no longer are learning the ways to play right, instead they are playing with skills that are locked for pvp!

cry should be scaled on fast casting. simple as that
and for roj, just make it so it doesnt nuke a shrine all the way to death in jq. or give it exhaust like say obsidian flame.

Tyla · Jan 31, 2009, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

On the other hand, when u have the chance to do them you prefer to do them with the cheap methods.

Why? Because you don't want to be left behind in rewards in comparison to other players, because you don't want to be called a noob.

What? Without a huge amount of time that I probably won't devote to the game, I won't be able to compete with those who farm on a regular basis. That, and I don't care for the economy in the game until the actual game is more balanced and I only play AB/FA (Netbook keyboards are stupid for games using the keyboard a lot, seriously).

Quote:

The difference, is that I play my game in the way I want. You play the game in the way it gives you most rewards regardless of it being fun and/or challenging.

Why do you do that? Does it matter so much to you taking 1.30 hours to do Urgoz in nm with a balanced build opposed to half an hour in HM with a non challenging build buffed by consumables, just because you get 6 times more rewards in the end?

The rewards don't matter when the economy is crushed, what does matter is that it's an elite area in hard mode taking an incredibly low skill level as minimum and giving so much. "Elite" areas in games where level scaling and equipment don't matter as much taking that time is just dumb, whereas you get some games with normal missions taking what, 45 minutes? An hour?

Quote:

Most people that ask for these nerfs want those things to mean skill, that's why they want to restrict the elite areas.

Well... they are meant for the better of the players. My advice to them is "get better". Its no different than me wanting to play my instruments for the pleasure, unless you think the buildup of skill is boring.